Álvaro: Joan, welcome to La Esquina, to your home. Joan: Thanks, Álvaro. It's a pleasure to be here with you. Álvaro: The first question is the usual one: when did you discover Go? Joan: When was it? That was 30 years ago… Yes... it has been 30 years. Around this time of year I was starting to work, and my boss, during the car ride to work—he was Argentine—asked me if I knew a game in which you had to find a kind of balance between ambition and prudence. He told me that the game was called Go and that it originated in China. Álvaro: But knowing it is one thing, and starting to play it is another. Did you see it as something very interesting from that very first moment and start playing, or did you have to let it sit in your mind for a while? Joan: What happened is that at that time I was very busy with work and family, but I mentioned it to my girlfriend—she was my girlfriend then, later she became my wife—and for Christmas she gave me a magnetic board. Well, it came with the rules, which were very easy, but we had no idea about anything else. We were just playing for the pleasure of discovering something new that had captivated me, and she had the kindness to say, "well, let's give it a try." That definition, or concept, of balance between ambition and prudence fascinated me. And that's how I got to know it. But over time she ended up not liking it, and as for me, although it interested me, I didn't devote enough time to it to go and play with anyone else. It stayed on standby. Álvaro: And did you play with your boss? Joan: No, I never actually played with him. That said, every now and then I would buy a book at the Gigamesh bookstore, which was the shop in Barcelona that carried Go material: they had books and game sets. But play? I didn't. For a long time I knew that Go existed, and I collected things related to Go, because I was more of an enthusiast than a player; in other words, I was also very interested in its origins in China, but as for actually playing, nothing. Álvaro: Back then, were you a fan of China, or of anything Eastern? Joan: Ever since I was born I've always been curious about the Eastern world, especially China. In high school, in what used to be the second year of BUP (the old Spanish upper-secondary program), which would now be the equivalent of the fourth year of ESO (compulsory secondary education), I had a class called economic geography. We had to do a group project on one of the world's geographic regions. There was Africa, the United States, the USSR at the time... And I got China. I was assigned the geographic part: the rivers, the mountain ranges, the usual stuff, and then I had to present it in class. And ever since that project, China had me hooked, and when Go appeared it was like a second spark. Álvaro: Go comes to you through Chinese culture and your passion for all things Eastern. Joan: Yes, in a way my approach is cultural and that of an enthusiast, more than a sporting one. Álvaro: Have you ever played it competitively at any point in those 30 years? Joan: Yes, because I've signed up for a few tournaments. I went to my first tournament in Barcelona in 2016. And there, well, I lost every game. It was an unpleasant experience. They asked me if I wanted them to explain the rules. Comments like that. Álvaro: How many years had you been playing Go? Joan: Playing Go at home with friends. For a while I played with my son and with some of my neighbors, casually, with people who weren't regular Go players. When I ventured out to a tournament, the typical thing happened: you're the last one and you lose every game. These days I've already enjoyed quite a few tournaments, but for me the competitive and sporting side isn't the crucial part. I go to a tournament to play, because I know I'll find people there who play, who play well, and who can teach me things, and I'll spend an interesting time. Álvaro: I take it that, cultural interest aside, you play Go for fun, right? Joan: Right. As a game, as an experience. Play is something that defines the culture of a group, and it is a cultural expression of a community, of its thinking, and an art form. In that sense, you can like it for its side as a competitive sport — which, as I've said, is not my case — you can like it as a game, as an artistic experience, as a cultural subject, as a historical or philosophical one. It's these other sides that fascinate and interest me most. And the sporting side, well, I understand it and I like it, but I don't worry much about whether I hold rank X or Y. It's not what keeps me up at night. Álvaro: There's a question I always like to ask: is Go your favorite game? Joan: Yes, it's my favorite game, and it is for the simple reason that it always combines two dichotomies, or two things that are opposed to each other. Simple rules, enormous complexity. You have to find a kind of balance between ambition and prudence. You have to combine attack and defense. You have to seek both territory and influence. This device, which arises from enormously easy rules yet is diabolically complex to understand and master (you never fully master it), has such richness that you end up finding many parallels in everyday life. And that is why I like it the most. Álvaro: You've also taken part in European Go events, haven't you? Joan: As for Go in Europe, my view comes from two experiences. One is having taken part in a European Go Congress, in Warsaw, last year, where I stayed for the full two weeks and was able to take part in competitive events as well as talks, meet players, attend the General Assembly, and so on. The other is the last four years writing for the European Go Journal, with articles on everything we've discussed about the ecosystem around Go: from the history of Spain in the world of Go to experiences at tournaments and historical, philosophical and cultural aspects, artificial intelligence, and so on. Álvaro: In the end, you're a popularizer. Joan: Yes, I think that with the background I've built up, what I wanted was to understand what this was, since I was passionate about it, and to pass that on. Popularizer... I think that's perhaps the definition that comes closest to describing me. Understanding what a tournament is, what it consists of, how it is organized, how it is set up, what dynamics are involved, why one person wins and another wins, the rankings, how to start a club and build it up, hold outreach events, training events, create magazines... You have to immerse yourself in every aspect. Álvaro: You're the founder of a Go club, right? Joan: Yes. One of the things I did when I was in Vilanova i la Geltrú, which is where I live now (it's a town of 70,000 inhabitants), was to go to the chess, bridge and billiards club here and say to them, why don't we start a Go club? They said yes. They provided me with beginner materials and 9x9 and 13x13 boards. And four years ago, during the town's annual festival, I set up a workshop. That's where I met Ferran Bassols, with whom, curiously, I had already crossed paths online while we were translating the first Go book into Catalan: he translated the first two chapters and I did the rest, but we hadn't met in person until then. From there we decided to start a club. Because two people are enough to start a club. Whether you then have the capacity to do more is another matter, but since there were already two of us, we decided to do it and see what happened. He lives in Barcelona, but he has relatives here in Vilanova, and little by little we have built something. Álvaro: The club is part of a large building where many more activities take place, right? Joan: Yes. The institution is a cultural and recreational center called La Gran Penya. "Gran Penya" implies a large number of people, and it has several sections. It's a century-old organization, founded in 1913, with a chess section, which is the largest, one for bridge, and another for billiards. I told them: come on, if you were founded in 1913, then you have to have a Go section — as a joke, really. Since Go uses 19x19 and 13x13 boards when I asked them for equipment. They told me yes, go ahead, that I had carte blanche and freedom. And they gave me a certain budget, with which I keep making and proposing things. Álvaro: And have you gotten more players involved besides Ferran? Joan: Yes, over time, players from the Barcelona area and around Catalonia, for whom it was somehow convenient to come, formed a small first group: there were four of us, five, six... And now, with this summer's Nam-Ban Go Seminar, a favorable circumstance has arisen: we have discovered that there are people interested around Vilanova, and we have expanded the group. Perhaps in this new season we will consolidate a bigger and broader group. We hold in-person meetups once a month. We try to do little and do it well. And once a quarter — at Christmas, at Sant Jordi, and in the summer, for the local festival — we try to do something special. At the beginning, the Go Club La Pedra helped us a lot. I have to thank Judit and Enrique, because they came over and supported us to get started. And well, now with the push from Nam-Ban. Álvaro: When you say "Nam-Ban push," you mean you got fired up by a summer event, right? The one that was always held in Sepúlveda. Joan: Yes, it happened like this. At last year's European Congress I was with Carlos M. Morera, and I asked him whether they were going to hold the Nam-Ban Seminar this year. He told me that the Sepúlveda venue had been closed and that it was complicated; the last one had been held in 2023. I told him: "And why don't we do it in Vilanova?" And he answered: "Well, if you find a venue, we can organize it together." I took care of the logistics: getting the Penya's space ready so it could host all the events the seminar needed, and arranging comfortable, affordable lodging nearby. The seminar itself — the activities, the schedule, the instructors... — all of that was in Nam-Ban's hands. Álvaro: Did it go well? Did you enjoy it? Joan: Well, there are three phases to all of this. The preparation phase, the execution phase, and then the phase of remembering, which is where we are now. The preparation phase... We had plenty of time, but what happens? When you have to coordinate with someone you're not used to working with, it can be hard at times. A bit because of the rhythms, the availability, the ways of doing things. And, well, there are periods when you're communicating things very intensely, others when nothing happens, and others when there are also misunderstandings and mistakes, but, well, they get fixed. I think that stage is perhaps not the one I liked the most. The execution phase I did enjoy a lot. I had never been to a Nam-Ban Go Seminar. I had wanted to go to the last one in Sepúlveda, but I couldn't make it, and I wanted to know what it was like. And honestly, it's really cool and very intense. I decided to pace myself, because since I was organizing and participating, there were certain things I couldn't do. It started at 9, and some days we finished at 10 at night, Monday through Sunday. And honestly, in terms of play, experiences, everything, well, it's ideal. It's a kind of mini European Congress, but concentrated into one week. And honestly, I enjoyed it a lot. And now, looking back, I enjoy it too. Because you see things, you write articles that will come out here and there, here in La Esquina, in the European Go Journal, they send you videos. It's been great. Álvaro: You are one of the founders of the magazine La Esquina. How did you get yourself into this mess of launching a Go magazine, and why have you been keeping it going for two years now? Joan: Look, if I'm being honest, I love writing about Go... I don't know if you've all noticed, but it's as plain as day. I started to enjoy writing when I began collaborating with the European Go Journal. And also when I came across a podcast, I'm sure you know it, called "Baduk al habla." Spreading the word and collecting everything that was happening around Go in Spain was something really worth doing. That's why I talked to you about it, and you liked the idea. You had one vision and I had another. And well, just like in Go, you have to collaborate and connect: you take one thing, I take another; the exchange is positive for both of us. And we reached a kind of consensus about what the magazine should more or less be. So we started like that, blindly, and we went along, improvising with each issue. And we're still doing it now: this is going to be issue number 11, and we keep improvising. I have a great time making it. I have a great time thinking about what to do. I have a great time discussing with you what we can do, looking for contributors, going to events, meeting people, explaining things... And I think it's very rewarding, both because of how much fun I have doing it and because of how I think the people who read it receive it. Álvaro: Aren't you afraid that fame will go to your head? Joan: Who, me? Well, people jokingly tell me, in small circles, that I really like the spotlight. But I'm a shy person and I don't like being the center of attention. I like to pass for a discreet person. If doing what I love has an impact, and a good one, that's fine with me. But beyond that, I don't want anything more. Álvaro: What surprises me most is your ability to connect Go with things that would seem impossible. For example, in this very issue you have an article... Joan: Are you going to give away a spoiler? Álvaro: It's not a spoiler, because it's being published at the same time (laughs). You've connected Go with the Odyssey, which, like it or not, seems like a triple-bank-shot kind of connection. And while at first I think every reader, myself included, starts reading the article and wonders where this is going — "what is he telling me?" — afterward things do fall into place. Do those connections come to you when you go to the movies and watch a film? Do you live in a constant state of connecting everything you experience with Go? Joan: No, no, but there's a phrase that sums it up very well: Go is like life. It's like a laboratory, or a metaphor, or a space where you can analyze everyday situations that are very complex, and there are similarities. So, you can exercise that relational ability. I make them after the fact. And this one in particular, the one about the Odyssey, came about because you set me a challenge as editor: you were reading Don Quixote and said to me, "Why don't you write an article connecting Don Quixote with Go?" And I told you: well, I don't know. And during the summer I thought it over, but I saw the movie, and I really liked the movie. And the story. It's one of the founding myths of Western civilization. And I thought: what a beautiful thing, to bring together a civilizing myth from the Western tradition with one from the Eastern tradition. So I did my research, I worked on it, and in the end this is what came out. They're very personal articles. That's how I am. Álvaro: One of the wonderful things about La Esquina will be when that archive of issues comes together and we find all of Joan's philosophical articles, because in the end they all have a very philosophical character. I understand that you're passionate about philosophy, in addition to Go. Joan: Yes. When people ask me to describe myself, I'm trained as a telecommunications engineer, though it might not seem like it. When I had to decide what to do, since I liked everything and was more or less good at everything, I went with something my father told me: that it should be worthwhile from a career standpoint. And he told me: philosophy isn't going to work out. But I like thinking and turning things over in my mind, though I also have a practical side as an engineer. So, a Renaissance man might describe me well. Not all of the articles I write are about philosophy. Some are about history. Some are about events I've attended, or tournaments, or I write them from my personal perspective. I think that's good... back when we had no contributors, it was you and me, and not much else. Now we're starting to have contributors, people who can pitch in and give it a more multifaceted perspective, and that's a good thing. I want La Esquina to have many voices. We're on the right track in this third season. Álvaro: The more contributors, the better. Changing to another subject, you are a member of the AEGO, but your club is not an endorsed club. What is your opinion of the AEGO as a Go institution in Spain? Joan: The AEGO has a long history, much of which I don't know in depth, although one of the first things I did when I became a member was to write a history of Go. I got in touch with the president of the AEGO and with various other sources, and little by little I came to understand what the AEGO really was and who it was made up of and founded by. It is an institution that ties together the entire organizational structure of the clubs and connects them with the federation structures at the European and world level. It runs on volunteers, and you have to be grateful, because the tasks are management, administration, rules, and schedules that nobody likes; what people want is to play, have a good time, and enjoy themselves. That said, I don't like the situation the AEGO has been in for the past year at all. I mean not the members themselves, but the current board of directors, because I think it's a situation that lacks the balance we were talking about in relation to Go. It's a difficult, complex situation that leads to unproductive matters and in which energy is spent resolving or dealing with things, when it would be more worthwhile to focus that energy elsewhere. That upsets me. But the club not being endorsed has nothing to do with that. We simply don't have enough volume and structure to be an accredited club. Being an accredited club means you have to be able to field at least a president, a secretary and a treasurer, hold a general assembly, and handle a series of other things the association needs in order to function. If you're just there to meet up, play and have a good time, you don't need any of that; if you want to run a club that hosts tournaments and events that count toward the Spanish Championship, and so on, then yes, you do. Álvaro: What role do you think we, the members of the AEGO, should play in promoting Go? Joan: The role... I think there are two dimensions. There is an individual dimension, in which everyone operates and works to get things done, and there is another, more institutional one, which is the club's perspective. I think it would be great if clubs cooperated more with one another. For example, my experience of cooperating with La Pedra to put on events, and having them help me even though I wasn't endorsed, or with Nam-Ban, being able to enjoy the seminar in Vilanova, has been very rewarding for me. I believe collaboration and cooperation should arise naturally. I think they do happen, but I think they should be encouraged and fostered more. Álvaro: Do you see Spain as very parochial? Joan: More than being parochial, I think it's what always happens: you start out promoting things in your own surroundings, creating a group, and you can run the risk of becoming trapped in that environment if that group thrives. I think it's good for people to be open-minded, not to want to be the only one doing something, and for dialogue and exchange, collaboration and cooperation to be encouraged. That initiatives be heard, that people get involved. There are examples that have turned out well, clubs like Dansu Baduk, which for specific reasons has not been an endorsed club. It wanted to hold its tournament, and Nam-Ban endorsed the tournament; that is an example of cooperation. There have been other initiatives where cooperation did not come about, perhaps out of a desire for the spotlight, out of a desire to hold on to a piece of turf, and so on. In Go you learn that the matter of ego is something you have to set aside a little; AEGO means "no egos." Perhaps we should all reflect on this a bit. Álvaro: The future of Go in Spain, do you see it as good, or bad? What path should be followed, now that you know the whole history of Go in this country? Joan: Knowing the history helps you piece together the future a bit, although it doesn't give you all the guidelines. I think Go in Spain has moved forward, shaped by many factors that have been positive, but at the same time it has been held hostage by those same factors. It has also advanced in fits and starts. There have been very good periods, followed by periods when things hit a slump. I think it would benefit from a kind of balance and continuity. As we were saying, for example, the matter of the seminars: this initiative that Nam-Ban launched at the beginning of the century, first in León, then in Sepúlveda, in Segovia, and now in Vilanova. There have been 13 seminars in total, more or less, in 26 years. So it would be good if it became an annual event. Just as there are tournaments that have been running for 27 years, like the ones in Seville or Madrid, or 43 in the case of Barcelona. That continuity over time is something I miss. Álvaro: That boost could come from the European Go Congress in Salamanca. Joan: If you're thinking of hosting a European Congress, that's great. But I want to be more ambitious: think about hosting a European Congress every nine or ten years. That's what countries with a mature Go scene do. It shouldn't be a one-off event and that's it. Álvaro: And do we have enough players in Spain to keep these activities going? Joan: In 2014, when you were already playing, there were more players than now. In tournaments, I mean: tournaments in Seville, tournaments in Barcelona, tournaments in Madrid... there were more players, but quantity doesn't mean quality. I think we have to grow organically, we have to make sure Go gets spread and popularized, that new players and new clubs emerge, as is happening in Zaragoza, or in Málaga, or in other places where there are already people working on it. It's good to have the largest possible number of endorsed clubs. We should foster cooperation and achieve a kind of regularity, a balance. If Go is a metaphor for life, then Go in Spain should be like a game. We're expanding organically. And sometimes there are things that give us a boost and go very well, but you have to be careful, because those boosts can later lead to a long period of ostracism. Álvaro: Have you never thought about joining the AEGO board? Joan: I think the people who do institutional work need to have the time, the ability and the desire. The right conditions also have to be in place. I think it's important that, when a board of directors is created, it be a board with the right people and a balance of positions and roles. On the occasions when matters of that kind have been put to me, that hasn't been the case. And for that reason I've always declined. Álvaro: And is it possible that, at some point in the future, if those conditions were met, you would join a board of directors? Joan: In this life, you can never say "never again." Álvaro: Do you have a favorite Go-related moment that stays in your memory? Something that left a mark on you and that, when it comes to mind, makes you smile. Joan: I have several. There's the one from when my wife gave me my first Go set. We've been married for 27 years, and she's able to see what matters to me, and she had that thoughtful gesture. Later, when I played it with my son. My son — and I'll return to what I said about China — was born in China; I adopted him in China, during the Mind Sports Games, in October 2008, eighteen years ago now: I was there, and while others were playing in the Mind Sports Games Go competition, I was off to pick up my son. And when we were here in Barcelona, as soon as I could, I got out the Go set. And he always beat me. He always beat me, and he knew nothing; he only knew the rules. He had it written in his genes. And that made me say: I have to buy more books, I have to study, I have to do something about this. And the third moment was at the second Granada tournament, when I accepted the prize for La Esquina that they gave us. It was a beautiful moment. Álvaro: I'll hold on to those last memories you shared with us. Have you been comfortable? Joan: Yes, very comfortable. Published in La Esquina #011 (November 2026). Download the full magazine as a PDF
